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#1 Sep 15, 2011 17:10:42

klhrevolution
Aspirant
Registered: Apr 13, 2008
Posts: 18

In Need of Desktop Representation: Avoiding Gnome3/Unity

No one dares to utter a word.. It's as if the gnu/linux news writers have fell off the edge of the world. And yet everytime I see an article from a fanboy touting the greatness of Gnome3/Unity the comments below the article are overwhelmingly negative. The vast majority of gnu/linux user's indeed do not like the direction of the desktops and nobody has yet to speak up for them.
It's as if somebody seen a preview of what microsoft was planning and decided the desktops of gnu/linux should be similar if not the same, but then that is not an entirely new concept in the gnu/liux sphere. Why this is occurring when so many found stability in gnome2, found it productive and useful, that now a radical change is needed is beyond me. And why on earth am I referring to gnome as gnome2? How quickly things are changing.
I can't really bash Ubuntu/Canonical as they are a business and provide a great many of services to devels and end users alike. Though I may not enjoy Unity, nor probably ever use it that is their business choice entirely to ignore free-loaders.   
Is that the problem? That we (users) have given up our influence of free market demand? Could it be that if we put our efforts into a foundation that will truly represent us we could keep our classic desktop? What foundation exists, or do we need to start anew? Can we show influence by numbers, donations and efforts that those other developers will weep for going astray? Perhaps... 
But who will read this and take up this cause? Who will report on it? The gnu/linux media has fallen deaf on our opinions but they too are not happy with the direction of the desktops either. What I've noticed is that they are merely birds parroting articles written by has beens and has nots. They may not be speaking up and speaking out on our behalf for whatever reasoning, but they are not speaking on behalf of those alienating the gnu/linux community either.
So we need  to either find a foundation to help our cause, or create our own, we need users to help spread this idea of a community directed & funded classic desktop to continue on and we need for users to spread it like wildfire to help gain traction.

Yes, I'm aware of the Mate Desktop -- again we need be sure that they have the same vision, I am not opposed to a 'Mate Foundation' https://github.com/Perberos/Mate-Desktop-Environment

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#2 Sep 15, 2011 17:13:55

rocket-dog
Deathwing Terminator
Registered: Jan 22, 2009
Posts: 1,666

Re: In Need of Desktop Representation: Avoiding Gnome3/Unity

XFCE smile


Ass hat. smile

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#3 Sep 15, 2011 17:25:34

nailuj
Honour Guard
From: Germany
Registered: Mar 18, 2009
Posts: 2,520

Re: In Need of Desktop Representation: Avoiding Gnome3/Unity

Not this again. wink

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#4 Sep 15, 2011 17:31:10

nailuj
Honour Guard
From: Germany
Registered: Mar 18, 2009
Posts: 2,520

Re: In Need of Desktop Representation: Avoiding Gnome3/Unity

If you don't like GNOME3 or Unity go and use something else, it's not like there aren't enough alternatives; or get involved in the GNOME community and try to change their minds by giving them arguments they will accept. Most negative posts about GNOME3 or Unity I've read were written on an "OMG CHANGE! DESIGNERS SO STUPID LOL" level.

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#5 Sep 15, 2011 17:32:42

nailuj
Honour Guard
From: Germany
Registered: Mar 18, 2009
Posts: 2,520

Re: In Need of Desktop Representation: Avoiding Gnome3/Unity

By the way, I think the reason that most of the negative press in the "news" has disappeared because people have either tried the new desktops and liked them or moved on to something else by now.

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#6 Sep 15, 2011 19:11:31

sysyphus.jones
Veteran Sergeant
From: there to HERE!
Registered: Aug 24, 2010
Posts: 1,242
Website

Re: In Need of Desktop Representation: Avoiding Gnome3/Unity

linus torvalds wrote:

While you are at it, could you also fork gnome, and support a gnome-2 environment? I want my sane interfaces back. I have yet to meet anybody who likes the unholy mess that is gnome-3.

Okay so there are people who like it, so then perhaps it's just Torvalds, klhrevolution and me   ツ

I s'pose that Torvalds is not being serious about a fork, but I do think it show the depth of his annoyance.

It seems the rationale for G3  goes something like: "MS and apple are moving to the tablet metaphor, so linux has to as well", but my question would be why did they have to throw away G2 to get there?

In fact ubuntu did rather a nice tablet-type interface in UNR in my opinion using G2 (well the first version, the one before G3 development started to  appeared and ubuntu got delusions of grandeur)

There's the old adage "if it ain't broke don't fix it" and software development is one of the worst offenders for this IMO. So MS and Apple have to keep reinventing the wheel to drive sales. So why does linux have to adopt the same nonsense?

I also find the "other DEs are available" argument, (a variation on "let them eat cake" IMO), annoying.

Why should I have to choose between change that I didn't what to something that is inferior (XFCE - sorry but that's my opinion), or something that I've already rejected when I chose G2 (KDE4x) ?

I like G2! I don't want a tablet inteface for my desktop and laptop! And I'm going to use G2 until bitrot makes the choice for me!

Dear Mr Torvalds, what you were saying about forking G2 ...


ƚɿoʇʇɘ ɘʜƚ ʜƚɿow ƚ'nƨɒw yllɒɘɿ ƨiʜƚ

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#7 Sep 15, 2011 19:30:02

nailuj
Honour Guard
From: Germany
Registered: Mar 18, 2009
Posts: 2,520

Re: In Need of Desktop Representation: Avoiding Gnome3/Unity

sysyphus.jones wrote:

Why should I have to choose between change that I didn't what to something that is inferior

Nobody is forcing you to move. But you can't force the GNOME developers to keep fixing bugs in GNOME 2 either.

sysyphus.jones wrote:

Dear Mr Torvalds, what you were saying about forking G2 ...

Words don't keep a software project running... And the people who are actually capable of continuing support for GNOME2 are all starting their own efforts it seems (I've seen like 3 or 4 different GNOME2 forks now).
If they join their forces, maybe they can really get a successful fork running. And I don't see any reason why that wouldn't be included in Linux distributions.
Also, it's hard for me to understand how it's possible to like GNOME2, but not XFCE, if you customize the panels a bit. But maybe I'm just being ignorant here wink

sysyphus.jones wrote:

It seems the rationale for G3  goes something like: "MS and apple are moving to the tablet metaphor, so linux has to as well"

Now that's an argument I find annoying wink
Gnome Shell is perfectly usable as a desktop interface. It doesn't include any "tablet" stuff that makes using it with a traditional mouse and keyboard any harder, so I don't see the point in that argument.
Also, please remember that Gnome Shell started before the iPad was released, or Metro started appearing in Ballmer's psychic dreams that show him the fortune of his company.

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#8 Sep 15, 2011 19:50:19

sysyphus.jones
Veteran Sergeant
From: there to HERE!
Registered: Aug 24, 2010
Posts: 1,242
Website

Re: In Need of Desktop Representation: Avoiding Gnome3/Unity

nailuj wrote:
sysyphus.jones wrote:

Why should I have to choose between change that I didn't what to something that is inferior

Nobody is forcing you to move. But you can't force the GNOME developers to keep fixing bugs in GNOME 2 either.

so I'm stuck with fedora 14 and ubuntu 10.04. The DE changes that I don't like affects my entire distro choice

nailuj wrote:

Also, it's hard for me to understand how it's possible to like GNOME2, but not XFCE, if you customize the panels a bit. But maybe I'm just being ignorant here wink

It feels like a significant step backwards to me but maybe I'm ignorant too smile

nailuj wrote:

Also, please remember that Gnome Shell started before the iPad was released, or Metro started appearing in Ballmer's psychic dreams that show him the fortune of his company.

Fair enough, I can't blame MS and Apple any more then  ツ


ƚɿoʇʇɘ ɘʜƚ ʜƚɿow ƚ'nƨɒw yllɒɘɿ ƨiʜƚ

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#9 Sep 15, 2011 20:02:23

nailuj
Honour Guard
From: Germany
Registered: Mar 18, 2009
Posts: 2,520

Re: In Need of Desktop Representation: Avoiding Gnome3/Unity

sysyphus.jones wrote:
nailuj wrote:
sysyphus.jones wrote:

Why should I have to choose between change that I didn't what to something that is inferior

Nobody is forcing you to move. But you can't force the GNOME developers to keep fixing bugs in GNOME 2 either.

so I'm stuck with fedora 14 and ubuntu 10.04. The DE changes that I don't like affects my entire distro choice

As of now, that is true. It is the same with any other piece of software though (I remember the rage when Thunderbird 3 hit Fedora, people were calling for a fork as well).

sysyphus.jones wrote:
nailuj wrote:

Also, it's hard for me to understand how it's possible to like GNOME2, but not XFCE, if you customize the panels a bit. But maybe I'm just being ignorant here wink

It feels like a significant step backwards to me but maybe I'm ignorant too smile

If you feel like it's a step backwards, it is. I hope you'll find a DE you're happy with in a while big_smile

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#10 Sep 16, 2011 07:01:33

kabniel
Aspirant
From: Sweden
Registered: Mar 21, 2009
Posts: 89

Re: In Need of Desktop Representation: Avoiding Gnome3/Unity

Instead of trying to change Gnome back into something it's not, (they are clearly not interested in good old desktop interfaces we've grown used to in the last 2 decades anymore) support the projects that are still on the path that you like, if you think Xfce is a step backwards it's only because your mind has been tainted by Me-menus and other stupid crap. tongue

I havent even tried Gnome3 or Unity yet, but from what i've seen i'm not sure i would hate them more than Gnome2.




(and all of you should just use xmonad anyway, tiling wm's ftw)

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#11 Sep 16, 2011 08:09:11

nailuj
Honour Guard
From: Germany
Registered: Mar 18, 2009
Posts: 2,520

Re: In Need of Desktop Representation: Avoiding Gnome3/Unity

kabniel wrote:

Instead of trying to change Gnome back into something it's not, (they are clearly not interested in good old desktop interfaces we've grown used to in the last 2 decades anymore) support the projects that are still on the path that you like

Exactly what I tried to say smile

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#12 Sep 16, 2011 13:42:28

sixthwheel
Veteran Sergeant
From: Cleveland,Tennessee. USA
Registered: Jun 12, 2010
Posts: 1,326

Re: In Need of Desktop Representation: Avoiding Gnome3/Unity

so I'm stuck with fedora 14 and ubuntu 10.04. The DE changes that I don't like affects my entire distro choice

Time to go distro hopping perhaps. Seriously you need to give KDE a chance. Give it 2 weeks.
I'm running the Beta 4.7.1 and it's pretty solid for a Beta.

You can give openSUSE a whirl. Most solid KDE distro I've ever used.

If you don't want KDE, try the 4.8 XFCE DE. They have come a long way as well...

How bout E-17?...I'm using Bodhi on my lappy. Best Enlightement distro IMHO..Takes some time to learn, but it's something different to play with.

Dont be a stuck in the mud guy!!!Go out and enjoy!

Last edited by sixthwheel (Sep 16, 2011 13:45:34)

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